anderson, all of our people will be back, right? >> nice glasses. [ female announcer ] beef, meet flavor boost. >> nice glasses. >> where did you get those? >> i'm copying you. >> like those? >> nice glasses. >> yeah. >> all right. an encore presentation. get ready, because it's true, an encore presentation of tonight's debate. >> it's true. >> know when it will to begin? >> i'm guessing five seconds from now. >> right now. go. >> good evening and welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2012, sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. i'm martha raddatz of abc news and i am honored to moderate this debate between two men who have dedicated much of their lives to public service. tonight's debate is divided between domestic and foreign policy. i'm gointo move back and forth between foreign and domestic since that is what a president or vice president would have to do. we will have nine different segments. at the beginning of each

segment, i will ask both candidates a question and they will each have two minutes to answer. flavor boost, meet beef. then i will encourage a discussion between the it's swanson flavor boost. candidates with followup concentrated broth questions. to add delicious flavor to your skillet dish by coin toss, it's been in just one stir. mmm! determined that vice president biden will be first to answer [ female announcer ] cook, meet compliments. get recipes at flavorboost.com. the opening question. we have a wonderful audience here at center college tonight. you will no doubt hear their enthusiasm at the end of the debate. and right now, as we welcome vice president biden and congressman paul ryan. [ applause ] >> very nice to see you. >> how are you doing? >> okay, you got your little wave to the families in. that's great. good evening, gentlemen. it is an honor to be here with

both of you. i would like to begin with libya. on a rather somber note, one month ago tonight, on the anniversary of 9/11, ambassador chris stevens and three other brave americans were killed in a terrorist attack in benghazi. the state department has made clear there were no protesters there. it was a preplanned assault by heavily armed men. wasn't this a massive intelligence failure, vice president biden? >> what it was is a tragedy, martha. yis stevens was one of our best. we lost three other brave americans. i can make absolutely two >> okay. let's move on to afghanistan. commitments to you and all the i'd like to move on to afghanistan, please. american people tonight. one, we will find and bring to that's one of the biggest expenditures this country has made in dollars and more justice the men who did this. importantly in lives. and secondly, we will get to the bottom of it and wherever the we just passed the sad milestone facts lead us, wherever they of losing 2,000 u.s. troops in lead us, we will make clear to this war. the american public, because whatever mistakes were made, more than 50 were killed this will not be made again. when you're looking at a president, martha, it seems to me that you should take a look year by the very afghan forces

at his most important we are trying to help. responsibility. that's caring for the national security of the country. we've reached the recruiting goal for afghan forces, we've the best way to do that is to degraded al qaeda. take a look at how he's handled why not leave now? the issues. what more can we really accomplish? on iraq, the president said he would end the war. is it worth more american lives? governor romney said that was a mistake. >> we don't want to lose the gains we've gotten. we want to make sure the taliban doesn't come back in, give al that he ended it. qaeda a safe haven. we agree with the 2014 governor romney said that was a transition. tragic mistake. when i think of afghanistan, i said we should have left 20,000 think of the incredible job that troops there. with regard to afghanistan, he said he will end the war in our troops have done. 2014. governor romney said we should not set a date. you've been there more than the two of us combined. with regard to 2014, he said it depends. when it came to osama bin laden, first time i was there in 2002, it was amazing to me what they the president, the first day in were facing. office, i was sitting with him in the oval office. i went to kandahar before the he called in the cia and signed an order saying my highest surge, sat down with a young private from the 82nd, who would priority is to get bin laden. prior to the election, prior to tell me what he did every day, him being sworn in, governor and i was in awe and to see what romney asked how he would they had in front of them and to proceed. go back in december to see what he said i wouldn't move heaven they accomplished? and earth to get bin laden. it's nothing short of amazing. he didn't understand it was more what we don't want to do is lose than about taking a murderer off the gains we've gotten.

the battlefield. we've disagreed from time to it was about restoring america's time. heart and letting terrorists around the world know if you do harm to america, we will track we would more likely to take you to the gates of hell if need into account, recommendations from our commanders on troop be. lastly, the president of the levels throughout this year's fighting season. united states s led with a steady hand and clear vision. governor romney, the opposite. we've been skeptical about the last thing we need now is negotiations with the taliban. another war. especially while they are shooting at us. but we want to see the 2014 >> congressman ryan? transition be successful and that means we want to make sure our commanders have what they >> we mourn the loss of these four americans who were need to make sure it is murdered. when you take a look at what's happened in the last few weeks, successful so that this doesn't they sent the u.n. ambassador once again become a launching out to say that this was because pad for terrorists. >> let's keep our eye on the of a protest and a youtube ball. video. it took the president two weeks i've been in afghanistan and to acknowledge that this was a terrorist attack. iraq 20 times. i have been throughout that he went to the u.n. and in his country, mostly in a helicopter, sometimes in a vehicle. speech at the u.n. he said six times, he talked about the youtube video. we went there for one reason. look, if we're hit by terrorists, we're going to call to get those people who killed it for what it is, a terrorist attack. americans, al qaeda. our ambassador in paris has a we decimated al qaeda central, marine detachment guarding him. eliminated osama bin laden, that was our purpose.

shouldn't we have a marine detachment guarding our ambassador in benghazi, a place we knew there was an al qaeda and in the meantime, we said we would help train the afghan cell with arms? military. it's their responsibility to this is becoming more troubling by the day. take over their own security. they first blamed the youtube video. that's why with 49 of our allies in afghanistan, we've agreed on now they're trying to blame the a gradual drawdown so we're out romney-ryan ticket for make -- making this an issue. of there by the year 20 -- end with respect to iraq, we had the of the year 2014. same position before the withdrawal, which was we agreed my friend and the governor say with the obama administration. it's based on conditions. it means it depends. let's secure our gains. it does not depend for us. the vice president was put in charge of the negotiations by president obama and they failed it is the responsibility of the to get the agreement. we don't have a status of forces afghans to take care of their own security. agreement because they failed to get one. we have trained over 315,000, that's what we were talking about. mostly without incident. when it comes to the veterans, we owe them a great debt of there have been more than two dozen cases of green on blue where americans have been killed. gratitude, for what they've done if we do -- if the measures, the for us, including your son, bo. military has taken, do not take >> thank you. >> but we also want to make sure hold, we will not go on joint we don't lose the things we fought so hard to get. patrols, we will not train in and we agreed with the 2014 the field, we'll only train in

transition in afghanistan. but what we also want to do is make sure we're not projecting the army bases that exist there. weakness abroad. but we are leaving. that's what's happening here. this benghazi issue would be a tragedy in and of itself. but unfortunately, it's we are leaving in 2014, period. indicative of a broader problem, in the process, we'll be saving over the next ten years, another and that is what we're watching $800 billion. on our tv screens is the we've been in the war for over a decade. primary objective is almost unraveling of the obama foreign policy, which is making things completed, now all we're doing more chaotic and us less safe. is putting the kabul government in a position to be able to >> i want to talk to you right maintain their own security. in the middle of the crisis, governor romney, and you're talking about this again tonight, talked about the it's their responsibility, not weakness, talked about apologies from the obama administration. america's. was that appropriate right in >> what conditions could justify staying, congressman ryan? >> we don't want to stay. the middle of the crisis? one of my best friends in >> on that same day, the obama administration had the exact janesville, a reservist is at a same position. forward operating base in let's recall, they disavowed afghanistan right now. their own statement they put out early in the day in cairo. our wives are best friends, our daughters are best friends. so we had the same position. i want him and all of our troops it's never too early to speak out for our values. we should have spoken out right to come home as soon and safely away when the green revolution as possible. we want to make sure the 2014 is successful.

was up and starting, when the that's why we want to make sure we give our commanders what they say they need to make it mullas in iran were attacking successful. we don't want to extend beyond 2014. their people. we should not have called assad a reformer when he was turning guns on his own people. we should always stand up for that's the point we're making. peace, democracy and individual if it was just this, i would rights and not be imposing these feel like we would be able to devastating defense cuts. call this a success. but it's not. because what that does, when we what we are witnessing is the equivocate on our values, when absolute unraveling of the obama we -- when we look weak, our foreign policy. problems are growing at home -- problems are growing abroad, but jobs aren't growing here at home. >> let's go back to this. adversaries are more willing to he says we're absolutely leaving test us. and our allies are -- in 2014. >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> why is that so? you're saying that's not an >> nothing he said is accurate. >> be specific. >> i will be very specific. number one, this lecture on absolute, but you won't talk embassy security. about what conditions would justify it. >> you know why we say that? the congressman here cut embassy you know why we say that? we don't want to broadcast our enemies, put a date on our calendar, wait us out and then security in his budget by $300 come back. million below what we asked for. >> you agree with the timeline? number one. >> we do agree with the same so much for the embassy security timeline and the transition, piece. what -- what any administration number two, governor romney, before he knew the facts, before will do in 2013, assess the

he knew that our ambassador was situation to see how best to killed, he was out making a complete the timeline. political statement, which was panned by the media around the >> we will leave in 2014. >> what we don't want to do is world. and this talk about this give our allies reason to trust weakness. i don't understand what my us less and our enemies more -- friend is talking about here. we don't want to embolden and this is a president who has gone out and done everything he had said he was going to do. -- our enemies to hold and wait this is a guy who repaired our out for us and then take over. >> that's a bizarre statement. alliances so the rest of the 49 allies. hear me. world follows us again. this is a guy who brought the 49 of our allies signed on to entire world, including russia this position. and china to bring about the most devastating, most >> and we're reading that they -- >> 49. 49 of our allies said out in devastating efforts on iran to 2014. it's the responsibility of the make sure that they in fact afghans. we have other responsibilities. stop -- look, i just -- i mean, these guys bet against america all the time. >> do you think this time >> let me go back to libya. line -- but we have soldiers and what were you first told about marines, we have afghan forces murdering our forces over there. the attack? why were people talking about protests? the taliban, do you think is when people in the consulate taking advantage of this timeline? >> the taliban, what we've found first saw armed men attacking with guns, there were no out and you saw it in iraq, protesters.

martha, unless you set a why did that go -- timeline, baghdad, in the case -- go on for weeks? >> because that's exactly what we were told by the intelligence community. the intelligence community told of iraq and kabul in the case of us that, as they learned more afghanistan, will not step up. facts about exactly what happened, they changed their they are happy for to us do the assessment. job, international security that's why there's also an investigation headed by a forces to do the job. the only way they step up is leading diplomat from the rig say, fellows, we're leaving. we've trained you, step up, step reagan years who is doing an investigation, as to whether or up. that's the only way it works. not there were any lapses, what the lapses were, so they will >> let me go back to the surge troops that we put in there, and you brought this up, congressman never happen again. ryan. >> they wanted more security there. >> we weren't told that. we did not know they wanted more i've talked to a lot of troops, security. and by the way, at the time, we were told exactly -- we said to senior officers who were exactly what the intelligence concerned that the surge troops were pulled out during the community told us that they fighting season and some of them knew. that was the assessment. saw that as a political move. as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it can you tell me what was the clear they changed their view. that's why i said we will get to the bottom of this. military reason for bringing usually when there's a crisis, we pull together. we pull together as a nation. those surge troops home before but as i said, even before we knew what happened to the the fighting ended? ambassador, the governor was >> the military reason -- by the holding a press conference. way, the president announced the that's not presidential surge, you'll remember, martha, he said that the surge will be out by the end of the summer.

leadership. the military said the surge will be out. capella university understands businesses are trying to come nothing political about this. before the surge occurred, so you be straight with me here too. before the surge occurred, we said that they will be out by the end of the summer. that's what the military said. the reason for that is -- >> military follows orders. trust me. there are people who are concerned about pulling out. >> there are people who are concerned. not the chiefs. it was their recommendation in the oval office to the president of the united states of america. i sat there. i'm sure you'll find someone who disagrees with the pentagon. i'm positive you will find that within the military. but that's not the case here. the reason why the military said that, you cannot wait and have a cliff. it takes uno months and months and months to draw down forces. you cannot wait. >> let me try and illustrate the issue here, because i think this

can get a little confusing. we've all met with general allen and general scaparotti to talk about fighting seasons. back from rough economic times. here is how it works. mountain passes fill with snow, employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. and the taliban and al qaeda when you see these problems do you take a step back, come over from pakistan to fight our men and women. or do you want to dive right in? when it fills with snow, they can't do it. in the warm months, fighting with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have gets high, in the winter it goes the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. down, so when admiral mullen and general petraeus came to let's get started at capella.edu congress and said, if you pull these people out before the fighting season ends, it puts people more at risk. that's the problem. yes, we drew 22,000 troops down last month, but the remaining troops who are there, who still have the same mission to prosecute, counterinsurgency are doing it with fewer people. that makes them less safe. we're sending fewer people out in all these hotspots to do the same job they were to do a month ago. >> because we turned over to the

afghan troops we trained. no one got pulled out that didn't get filled in by trained afghan personnel. and he's conflating these two issues. the fighting season petraeus was talking about and admiral mullen not quite knowing what the next phase was going to be, was the fighting season this you know, because you been, you know, this is what you had beedoing. you know, working, working, working, working, working, working. spring. and now you're talking about, well you know, i won't be, that's what he was talking about. we did not pull them out. >> the calendar works the same every year. and i get the chance to spend more time with my wife and my kids. >> it does work the same every it's my world. year. >> spring, summer, fall, it's that's my world. warm or it's not. ♪ they are still fighting us, coming over the passes. they are still coming in to zabul,unar, all these areas but we are sending fewer people tohe front to fight them. and i was told to call my next of kin. at 33 years old, i was having a heart attack. >> that's right because that's now i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. the afghan responsibility. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor we've trained them. before you begin an aspirin regimen. >> not in the east. >> not in the east? i didn't know this could happen so young. >> the east is the most take control, talk to your doctor. dangerous place in the world.

you would rather americans go in to do the job. >> no, we're sending americans to do the job, fewer of them. >> mr. ryan, i want to ask you about, the romney campaign talks that's the whole point. a lot about no apologies. >> we're sending in more afghans he has a book called "no to do the job. apologies." afghans to do the job. should the u.s. have apologized ♪ for americans burning korans in afghanistan? should the u.s. apologize for u.s. marines urinating on taliban corpses? >> oh, gosh yes. urinating on taliban corpses. ♪ what we should not apologize for -- >> burning korans? >> what we should not apologizing for is standing up for our values or saying to the ♪ egyptian people that mubarak is ♪ cracking down on them and he's a good guy and then the next week, [ male announcer ] at&t. say he ought to go. we should not reject claims for the nation's largest 4g network. calls for more security. now covering 3000 more 4g cities and towns than verizon. we need marines in benghazi when at&t. rethink possible. the commander on the ground says we need more forces for security. there were requests for extra

security. these are sandra's "homemade" those requests were not honored. look, this was the anniversary yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? of 9/11. i just wanted you to eat more fiber. it was libya. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... a country we knew we had al and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. qaeda cells there, as we know al [ male announcer ] fiber one. qaeda and its affiliates are on the rise in northern africa. and we did not give our ambassador in benghazi a marine detachment? of course there's an investigation so we can make sure this never happens again. but when it comes to speaking up for our values, we should not apologize for those. here's the problem. look at all the various issues out there, and it's unraveling i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. have led to an increase intands clinical depression. before our eyes. the vice president talking about sanctions on iran. drug and alcohol abuse is up. >> let's move to iran. i would like to move to iran. and those dealing with grief don't have access to the there's really no bigger professional help they need. when you see these issues, do you want to walk away or step up? national security this country is facing. president obama and governor romney said they will prevent with a degree in the field of counseling or psychology from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make iran from getting a nuclear a difference in the lives of others. weapon, even if that means let's get started at capella.edu military action. last week, bob gates said a strike on iran's facilities would not work and "could prove if we want to improve our schools...

catastrophic, haunting us for ...what should we invest in? generations." can the two of you be absolutely maybe new buildings? clear and specific to the what about updated equipment? american people how effective would a military strike be? they can help, congressman ryan? but recent research shows... ...nothing transforms schools >> we cannot allow iran to gain like investing in advanced teacher education. a nuclear weapon capability. let's build a strong foundation. let's take a look at where we've come from. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. when barack obama was elected, they had enough nuclear material let's solve this. to make one bomb. now they have enough for five. that i racing toward a nuclear weapon. they're four years closer toward nuclear weapons capability. we've had four different sanctions from the u.n., three from t bush administration and one here. the only reason we got it is because roush watered it down and prevented the sanctions from hitting the central bank. mitt romney proposed these sanctions in 2007. i proposed them in 2009. the administration was blocking us every step of the way.

we had strong bipartisan support and we were able to overrule their objections and put them in despite the administration. >> let's move to another war, imagine what would have happened the civil war in syria, where if we had the sanctions in place there are estimates that more earlier? than 25,000, 30,000 people have do you think iran is not brazen? look at what they're doing. now been killed. they tried a terrorist attack in the united states last year when in march of last year, preside they tried to blow up the saudi obama explained the military ambassador at a restaurant in washington, d.c. talk about credibility. action taken in libya by saying when this administration says it was in the national interest that all options are on the table, they send out senior to go in and prevent further administration officials that massacres from occurring there. send all these mixed signals. why doesn't the same logic apply in syria? in order to solve this >> it's a different country. it's a different cntry. peacefully, which is everybody's goal, you have to have the it is five times as large geographically. ayatollahs change their minds. look at where they are. it has one fifth the population that is libya. they're moving faster toward a one fifth the population, five nuclear weapon. times as large geographically. it's because this administration has no credibility on this it's in a part of the world where you're not going to see issue. it's because they watered down whatever would come from that the sanctions. now we have sanctions in place because of congress. war, seep into a regional war. they say the military options are on the table, but it's not being viewed as credible. you are in a country that is the key is to make sure we have heavily populated, in the most dangerous area in the world. credibility. under a romney administration, and if, in fact, it blows up,

we will have credibility on this issue. the wrong people gain control it >> vice president biden? >> incredible. will have impact on the entire region, causing potentially look, imagine had we let regional wars. republican congress work out the sanctions. we're working hand in glove with do you think there's any the turks, jordanians, saudis, possibility the entire world would have joined us? with all of the people in the russia and china? region, attempting to identify all of our allies? the people who deserve the help these are the most crippling sanctions in the history of so when assad goes and he will sanctions, period, period. go. there will be a legitimate government that follows on. when governor romney is asked not an al qaeda sponsored about it, he said we've got to keep these sanctions. government that follows on. and all this loose talk of my when you say, when you talk friend, governor romney and the about more, are you going to go to war? is that what you want to do now? congressman, about how we are >> we want to prevent war. going to do -- we could do so >> how are they going to prevent much more. war? they say there's nothing more we what more would they do, other than put american boots on the should do than what we've already done. number two, with regard to the ground? the last thing america needs is to get in another ground war in the middle east. requiring tens of thousands, if ability of the united states to not well over 100,000 american forces. take action militarily, it's not that -- they are the facts. in my purview to talk about they are the facts. classified information, but we every time the governor is asked about this, he doesn't say

feel quite confident we could anything. deal a serious blow to the he goes up with a whole lot of iranians. number two, the iranians are -- the israelis and the united states and the military verbiage, but he says he would intelligenceommunities are the same exact place in terms of how not do anything different than close, how close the iranians are to getting a nuclear weapon. we are doing now. are they proposing putting american troops on the ground, american planes in the air they are a good way away. space? if they do, then they should there is no difference between speak up and say so. our view and theirs. when my friend talks about that's not what they are saying. nuclear material, they have to we're doing it exactly like we take this highly enriched uranium, get it from 20% up and need to do to identify those then have something to put it forces who will provide for a in. stable government and not cause there is no weapon that the iranians have at this point. a regional sunni/shia war. the israelis and we know, we'll know if they start the process when assad falls. of building a weapon. >> no one is proposing to send so all this bluster i keep hearing, all this loose talk, american troops to syria. what are they talking about? let me say it this way. how would we do things differently? we wouldn't refer to bashar are you talking about to be more assad as a reformer when he is killing his own civilians with russian supplied weapons. credible -- what more can the president do? stand before the united nations,

tell the whole world, directly, wi wouldn't be outsourcing our communicate to the ayatollah, we foreign policy to the united nations giving vladimir putin will not let them acquire a veto power over our efforts to nuclear weapon. period. deal with this issue. unless he's talking about going to war. he's vetoed three of them. >> martha, let's just look at this from the view of the ayatollahs. what do they see? they see this administration hillary clinton went to russia trying to water down sanctions in congress for over two years. to convince him not to do so. they're moving faster toward a nuclear weapon. they're spinning the centrifuges faster. they thwarted our efforts and they see us coming into the this is one example of how the russia reset is not working. administration, when they're where are we? sworn in, we need more space after international pressure, then president obama said bashar assad should go. with our ally, israel. it's been over a year. he has slaughtered tens of thousands of his own people, and they see president obama in new york city, the same day the prime minister of israel is here, instead of meeting with more foreign fighters are him, goes on a talk show. spilling into this country. so the longer this has gone on, the more people -- groups like they see, when we say the al qaeda are going in. we could have more easily identified a free syrian army, options are on the table, the secretary of defense walk them freedom fighters, working with back. they are not changing their allies, turks, saudis. mind. that's what we have to do is change their minds so they stop pursuing nuclear weapons. >> look, you both saw benjamin had we had a better plan in netanyahu hold up with picture place to begin with, working of a bomb with a red line and through our allies. talking about the red line be in

we waited for kofi an an to come spring. up with an agreement with the can you solve this, if the romney-ryan ticket is elected, can you solve this in two months before spring and avoid nuclear u.n. and that bought bashar iran? assad time. we gave them veto power and 30,000 syrians are dead. >> what would my friend do >> we can debate the timeline, differently? whether it's that short of time you notice, he never answers the or longer. question. i agree that it's probably longer. >> we wouldn't be go through all number two, it's -- of the u.n. and all of these things. >> you don't agree with that >> we don't go through the u.n. bomb and what the israeli -- we are in the process now and [ all speak at once ] >> i don't want to go into classified stuff, but we both have been for months in making agree that to do this sure that help, humanitarian peacefully, you have to get them to change their minds. they're not changing their minds and look at what this aid, as well as other aid and administration does -- trning is getting to those >> let me tell you what the ayatollahs sees. forces that we believe the turks believe, the jordanians believe, the yeet sees his economy being the saudis believe, are the free forces inside of syria. crippled. the ayatollah sees there are 50% fewer exports of oil. that's under way. he sees the currency going into allies all on the same page. the tank. he sees the economy going into a nato as well as our arab allies. freefall. in terms of trying to get a and he sees the world for the settlement. first time totally united in opposition to him getting a nuclear weapon. that was their idea. we were the ones that said enough.

with regard to netanyahu, he's been my friend for 39 years. with regard to the reset not the president has met with him a dozen times and spoken to him as working, the fact of the matter is that russia has a different much as he's spoken to nibble. interest in syria than we do, and that's not in our interest. -- to anybody. i was -- just before he went to the u.n., i was in a conference >> what happens if assad does not fall? congressman ryan? what happens to the region? call with the president, with what happens if he hangs on? >> then iran keeps their greatest ally in the region. him to -- talking to be be for a sponsor of terrorism. he will probably continue slaughtering his people. well over an hour. in stark relief and detail about what was going on. this is a bunch of stuff. look, here's the deal -- we and the world community will >> what does that mean, a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. lose our credibility on this. >> it's irish. >> we irish call it malarkey. he mentioned the reset. >> what would romney/ryan do? >> we agree with the same redline that they do on chemical weapons, but not putting >> thanks for the translation. american troops in, other than to secure chemical weapons. >> but last thing, the secretary they are right about that. of defense has made it clear, we didn't walk anything back. what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom we will not allow the iranians fighters. to get a nuclear weapon. what bebe held up there, when those dissidents in syria. we should not have called bashar they get to the point where they assad a reformer and we should can enrich uranium enough to put not -- into a weapon, they don't have a >> what's your criteria -- weapon to put it into. let's call calm down a little >> we should not have waited for

bit here. iran is more isolated today than russia to give us the green when we took office. light. they are still arming the man. iran is sending flights over iraq to help bashar assad. it was on the ascendancy when we >> and the opposition is being took office. it is totally isolated. armed. >> thank heavens we have these >> and wi-of-by the way, if we sanctions in place. it's in spite of their opposition. they have given 20 waivers to had the status of forces this sanction. all i have to point to are the results. agreement that the vice president said he would bet his they're four years closer to a nuclear weapon. vice presidency on in iraq, we would probably have achieved i think that case speaks for itself. >> by the way, who is worse, that. another war in the middle >> what is your criteria for east -- >> they're closer to being able to get enough nuclear term to intervention? >> in syria? >> worldwide. >> what is in the national interests of the american people. -- nuclear material to put in a the strategic national interests of our country. >> no humanitarian? weapon if they had a weapon. >> each situation will come up >> you're acting like they don't with its own set of want one. >> i didn't say that. circumstances, but putting american troops on the ground, facts matter, martha. has to be within the national security interest of the american people. you're a foreign policy expert. facts matter. all this loose talk about all they have to do is get to enrich uranium and they have a weapon. not true. not true. >> we're almost out of time. they are more -- and if we ever >> that means things like have to take action, unlike when embargoes and sanctions, those are things that don't put we took office, we'll have the american troops on the ground. world behind us. but if you are talking about and that matters. putting troops on the ground, only in our national security that matters. interest.

>> what about bob gates' [ man ] in hong kong, on my way to the board meeting... statement? let me read that again. could prove catastrophic, haunting us for generations. >> he's right. it could prove catastrophic. >> congressman ryan? anne's tablet called my phone. >> it undermines our credibility anne's tablet was chatting with a tablet in sydney... by backing up the point when we a desktop in zurich... make it, that all options are on and a telepresence room in brazil. the secure cloud helped us get some numbers the table. that's the point. from my assistant's pc in new york. the ayatollahs see these statements and think, i'm going to get a nuclear weapon. and before i reached the top, when we see the kind of equivocation that took place, the board meeting became because this administration a congrats we sold the company party. wanted a precondition policy, so wait til my wife's phone hears about this. when the green revolution started up, they were silent for nine days. [ cellphone vibrating ] [ female announcer ] with cisco at the center, working together has never worked so well. when they see us putting daylight between ourselves and i wish my patients could see what i see. our allies in israel, that gives ♪ them encouragement. when they see russia watering that over time, down sanctions, when they see having high cholesterol and any of these risk factors -- the only reason we got the can put them at increased risk for plaque buildup sanctions is because russia in their arteries. watered it down. so it's even more important

so when they see this kind of to lower their cholesterol, and that's why, activity, they are encouraged to when diet and exercise alone aren't enough, continue and that's the problem. >> martha -- >> let me ask you what's worse, i prescribe crestor. war in the middle east, another in a clinical trial versus lipitor, war in the middle east or a nuclear armed iran? >> i'll tell you what's worse. crestor got more high-risk patients' bad cholesterol to a goal of under 100. >> quickly. [ female announcer ] crestor is not right for everyone. >> a nuclear armed iran which like people with liver disease triggers a nuclear arms race in or women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. the middle east. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. this is the world's largest sponsor of terrorism. they're dedicated to wiping off call your doctor right away an entire country off the map, if you have muscle pain or weakness, they call us the great satan. feel unusually tired, have loss of appetite, >> vice president biden? upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. >> we can't live with that. >> war should always be the these could be signs of rare but serious side effects. absolute last resort. ♪ that's why these crippling is your cholesterol at goal? talk to your doctor about crestor. sanctions that netanyahu says we [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. should continue, which if i'm not mistaken, governor rom flee says we should continue. i may be mistaken. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, then don't miss sleep train's wbest rest event.st ever? he changes his mind so often, i could be wrong. you'll find sleep train's very best mattresses but the fact is, he says they're working.

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britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, >> i want to return home for administering her medication, and just making her comfortable. these last few questions. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark, this debate is indeed historic. we have two catholic candidates, "when a person dies," she said, "someone must open the window so the soul can depart." first time on a stage such as this. i would like to ask you both i smiled and squeezed her hand. what role your religion has "not tonight, britta. played in your own personal views on abortion? not tonight." [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. please talk about how you came to that decision. talk about how religion played a role. and, please, this is such an emotional issue for so many people in this country. please talk personally about this if you could. congressman ryan? >> i don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life. or from their faith. my faith informs me how to take care of the vulnerable, how to

make sure that people have a chance in life. you ask me why i'm pro life? it's not simply because of my catholic faith. that's a factor, of course, but it's also because of reason and science. you know, i think about 10 1/2 years ago, my wife jan and i went to mercy hospital in janesville, where i was born, for our seven-week ultrasound for our first born child. we saw that heartbeat, our little baby was in the shape of a bean. and to this day, we have nicknamed our first born child, liza, bean. i believe life begins at conception. those are the reasons why i'm conversation to the state of our pro life. now, i understand this is a difficult issue and i respect people who don't agree with me economy, the number one issue on this. but the policy of a romney administration will be to oppose

here at home is jobs. abortion except in instances of the percentage of unemployed rape, incest, and the life of the mother. what troubles me more is how this administration has handled just fell below 8% for the first all of these issues. time in 43 months. look what they are doing with the obama administration had projected that it would fall below 6% now after the addition of close to a trillion dollars in stimulus money. obama care, with respect to will both of you level with the assaulting the religious liberties of this country. american people, can you get they're infringing upon our unemployment to under 6% and how long will it take? first freedom oot freedom of >> i don't know how long it will take. religion by infringing on we can and will get it under 6%. catholic charities, catholic churchs, catholic hospitals. our church should not have to let's take a look at the facts. sue the federal government to maintain their liberties. let's look at where we were when and abortion, they wanted it to we came into office. be safe, legal and rare. now they support it without the economy was in free fall. restrictions and with taxpayer funding. we had a great recession hit. 9 million people lost their jobs. taxpayer funding on obama care, taxpayer funding with foreign aid. the vice president himself went $1.6 trillion in wealth lost in to china and said he sympathized or wouldn't second guess their equity in your homes and retirement accounts for the one-child policy of forced abortions and sterilizations. middle class. we knew we had to act for the middle class and we went out and rescued general motors. that to me is pretty extreme. we made sure that we cut taxes >> vice president biden.

for the middle class, and in addition to that, when that occurred, what did romney do? romney said no, let detroit go >> my religion defines who i am, bankrupt. we moved in and helped people and i've been a practicing catholic my whole life. and it has particularly informed my social doctrine. refinance their homes. governor romney said no, let catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who foreclosures hit the bottom. but it shouldn't be surprising can't take care of themselves. people who need help. for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to with regard to abortion, i take responsibility for their lives. my friend said 30% are takers. these people are my mom and dad, accept my church's position on my neighbors. they pay more tax than governor romney pays. they are elderly people who in fact are living off of social security. abortion as what we call a di fete doctrine. there are veterans and people fighting in afghanistan right now who are, quote, not paying life begins at conception. that's what i believe in my any taxes. i've had it up to here with this personal life. i refuse to oppose it on equally devout christians and muslims and jews and i just refuse to notion, 47% -- it's about time impose that on others. unlike my friend here, the congressman. they take some responsibility here. i -- i do not believe that we instead of signing pledges not to ask the wealthiest among us to have a right to tell other contribute to bring back the

middle class, they should be people, women, they can't signing a pledge saying to the control their body. middle class, we're going to level the playing field. we're going to give you a fair shot again. we are going to not repeat the it's a decision between them and mistakes we made in the past by their doctor, in my view, and having a different set of rules for wall street and main street. the supreme court. i'm not going to interfere with making sure that we continue to that. hemorrhage these tax cuts for with regard to the assault on the catholic church, let me make the super wealthy. it absolutely clear, no religious institution, catholic they're pushing the continuation of a tax cut that will give an or otherwise, including catholic additional $500 billion in tax cuts to 120,000 families. social services, mercy hospital, and they're holding hostage the any hospital, none has to either middle class tax cut, because they say we won't pass, we won't refer contraception, none has to continue the middle class tax cut unless you give it for the pay for contraception. none has to be a vehicle to get super wealthy. it's about time they take responsibility. contraception in any insurance >> mr. ryan? policy they provide. >> joe and i are from similar that is a fact. that is a fact. towns. we's from scranton, pennsylvania. now with regard to the way in which we differ, my friend says i'm from janesville, wisconsin. you know what the unemployment rate in scranton is? that he -- i guess he accepts governor romney's position. >> sure do. it's 10%. the day you came into office it in the past, he has argued that there was rape and forcible was 8.5%.

that's how it's going all around rape, and he's argued in the america. >> that's not how it is, it's case of rape or incest, it would going down. be a crime to engage in having >> this is his two-minute an abortion. answer, please. >> did they inherit a tough i fundamentally disagree. situation? absolutely. but we're going in the wrong direction. look at where we are. the economy is barely limping along. it's growing at 1.3%. >> congressman ryan? >> all i'm saying if you believe that's slower than last year and last year was slower than the year before. job growth in september was life begins at conception, that slower than it was in august and august was slower than july. doesn't change the definition of we're heading in the wrong direction. life. that's a principle. 23 million americans are the policy of a romney struggling for work today. administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for rape, incest, life of the 15% of americans are living in mother. now, i've got to take issue with the catholic church and religious liberty. poverty today. this is not what a real recovery looks like. if they agree with you, why we need real reforms and that's would they keep suing you? what we're proposing. it's a distinction without a difference. >> i want to go back to the abortion question. if the romney/ryan ticket is elected, should those who worry >> it's a five-point plan. -- who believe that abortion get america energy independent should remain legal be worried? in north america by the end of the decade. help people that are hurting get >> we don't think un-elected the skills to get the job they judges should make this want. decision, but people through get the deficit under control to their elected representatives,

avoid a debt crisis. make trade work for america so in reaching a consensus in we can make more things in america. and sell them overseas and society through the democratic champion small businesses. don't raise taxes on small businesses because they're the job creators. he talks about detroit. process, should make this mitt romney is a car guy. determination. >> the next president will get one or two supreme court they keep misquoting him. nominees. but let me tell you about the mitt romney i know. this is a guy two i was talking that's how close roe versus wade to a family in massachusetts the other day. cheryl and mark nixon. is. just ask yourself, with robert bork the chief advisor in the their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them, two of court for mr. romney, who is he likely to appoint? them, rob and reed, were do you think he's likely to paralyzed. the romneys didn't know them. appoint someone like scalia or they went the same church, they never met before. someone else on the court, far mitt asked if he would come over for christmas. right, that would outlaw he brought his wife and boys and gifts and later said, i know you're struggling, mark. don't worry about their college, abortion? i'll pay for it. i suspect that would happen. i guarantee that won't happen. when mark told me this story, he we picked two people, ownership -- because you know what, mitt minded. so keep an eye -- romney doesn't tell these >> was there a litmus test on this? >> we picked people who had an open mind, didn't come with an stories. he said it wasn't the cash help. agenda. it's that he gafe his time and he has consist enltly. this is a man who gave 30% of designed for men's health concerns as we age. his income to charity, more than

the two of us combined. mitt romney cares about 100% of it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. americans in this country. with respect to that quote, i one a day men's 50+. think the vice president knows that words sometimes don't come out of your mouth the right way. [ laughter ] >> but i always say what i mean. and so does romney. >> we want everybody to succeed. we want to get people out of poverty. in the middle class and into self-sufficien self-sufficiency. we believe in opportunity. that's what we're going to push for in a romney administration. >> vice president? i have a feeling you have a few things to say here. to support cell health. >> the idea, if you heard that energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed little sill quee on the 47%, if to safely and responsibly providing generations you think that, then i've got a of cleaner-burning energy for our country, bridge to sell you. i don't doubt his personal generosity. drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources i understand what it's like. when i was a little younger than within self-contained well systems. the congressman, my wife was in and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, an accident, killed my daughter rigorous practices help ensure our operations

and my wife and my two sons are safe and clean for our communities survived. i've sat in the homes of many and the environment. we're america's natural gas. people that have gone through what i have gone through. by the armful? by the barrelful? because the one thing you can the carful? give me solace is to know they how about...by the bowlful? know that you've been through campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, it, that they can make it. so i don't doubt his personal commitment to individuals. and can help you keep a healthy weight. but you know what? campbell's. i know he had no commitment to it's amazing what soup can do. the automobile industry. he said let it go bankrupt, period. let it drop out. all this talk, we saved a million jobs. 200,000 people are working today. and i've never met two guys more down on america across the board. we're told everything is going badly. 5.2 million new jobs, private sector jobs. we need more. but 5.2 million. if they would get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class and make it permanent. if they get out of the way and pass the jobs bill, if they get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are

struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down, just get out of the way. stop talking about how you care about people. show me something. show me a policy. show me a policy where you take responsibility. and by the way, they talk about this great recession as if it fell out of the sky, like oh, my goodness, where it did come from? it came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card at the same time, put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. i was there. i voted against them. i said no, we can't afford that. now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with the concern about the debt that they created -- >> congressman ryan? >> let's not forget that they came in with one-party control. when barack obama was elected, his party controlled everything. they had the ability to do everything of their choosing and look at where we are right now. they passed the stimulus. the idea that we could borrow $831 billion, spend it on these

special interest groups and it >> i'm going to move on to the would work out just fine. closing question. that unemployment would never get to 8%. we're running out of time. it went up above 8% for 43 certainly known and you've said it here tonight that the two of months. they said right now if we just pass this stimulus, the economy you respect our troops would grow at 4%. it's growing at 1.3. enormously. your son has served, and perhaps some day your children will serve as well. i recently spoke to a highly >> when could you get it below decorated soldier who says this presidential campaign has left 6%? >> that's the entire premise of our plan. getting the economy growing at him dismayed, he told me "the 4%. creating 12 million jobs in four years. ads are so negative and all tearing down each other, rather look at the $90 billion in than building up the country. what would you say to that stimulus. the vice president was in charge american hero about this of overseeing this. campaign? $90 billion in green pork to campaign contribute fors and and at the end of the day, are you ever embarrassed by the tone? -- contributors and special vice president biden. interest groups. just at the department of energy, there are over 100 criminal investigations that have been launched -- >> martha, look, his colleague runs an investigative committee, >> i would say to him, the same thing i say to my son who did serve a year in iraq. spent months and months going -- >> this is the inspector general. we only have one truly sacred obligation as a government. >> months and months. and that's to equip those we they found no evidence of send into harm's way and care for those who come home. cronyism.

and i love my friend here. i am not allowed to show that's the only sacred letters, but go to our website. obligation we have. he sent me two letters saying, everything else falls behind by the way, can you send me some that. stimulus money for companies here in the state of wisconsin? we sent millions of dollars. >> you did ask for stimulus i would also tell him that the money, correct? fact that he, this decorated >> on two occasions, we soldier you talked about, fought advocated for constituents applying for grants. for his country, that that should be honored. that's what we do. he shouldn't be thrown into a >> i love that. category of 47% who don't pay their taxes while he was out i love that. this is such a bad program and he writes me a letter staying, there fighting, not having to pay taxes and not taking -- saying the reason we need responsibility. this stimulus, it will create i would also tell him that growth and jobs. his words. and now he's sitting here things that occurred in this looking at me, and by the way, that program, again, investigated. campaign, every campaign, that i'm sure both of us regret. what the congress said was, it was a model. less than 0.4% waste or fraud in anyone having said, particularly the program. in these special new groups that all this talk about cronyism. can go out there, raise all the they investigated and did not money they want, not have to find any evidence. identify themselves and say the most skur louse things about the i wish he would be a little more other candidate. candid. >> was it a good idea to spend it's an abomination. taxpayer dollars on cars in

but the bottom line here, i would ask that hero you finland or windmills in china? referenced to take a look at was it a good idea to borrow whether or not governor romney this money from china and spend it on these interest groups? or president obama has the conviction to help lift up the >> it was a good idea to stop us middle class, restore them to where they were before this from going off the cliff and set great recession hit and they got the conditions to grow again. wiped out or whether or not he's we have in fact 4% of those green jobs didn't go under. going to continue to focus on it's a better batting average taking care of the very wealthy, than investment bankers had. not asking them to pay any part they have about a 40% loss. >> where are the 5 million green jobs -- >> i want to move on here to medicare and entitlements. to bring back the middle class of this country. i would ask him to take a look i think weave gone over this at whether the president of the united states has acted wisely quite enough. >> by the way, any letter you in the use of force and whether send me, i'll entertain. or not this slipshod comments >> i appreciate that, joe. being made by governor romney serve our interests very well. up your game. up the ante. there are things said in and if you stumble, you get back up. campaigns that i find not very appealing. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. >> congressman ryan. >> first of all, i would thank we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people him for his service to our while investing billions improving everything country. secondly, i would say we won't impose these cuts that will be from booking to baggage claim.

devastating to our military. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. then i would say, you have a president who ran for president four years ago, promising hope and change, who has now turned when you take a closer look... this campaign into attack, ...at the best schools in the world... blame, and defame. ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. you see, if you don't have a good record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. to run from. that's what president obama said as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. in 2008. it's what he's doing right now. look at the string of broken promises. if you like your health care let's develop more stars in education. plan, you can keep it. try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. to lose their health insurance let's solve this. if obama care goes through. or the 7.4 million seniors who well, if itmr. margin?margin. are going to lose it. remember what he said this, if don't be modest, bob. you make less than 250,000, your you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. taxes won't go up. that was ups. of the 21 tax increases, 12 of and who called ups? you did, bob. them hit the middle class. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. remember when he said, health but you... you consulted ups. insurance premiums will go down you found a better way. that's logistics. $2500 per family for year, they that's margin. find out what else ups knows. are expected to go up another i'll do that.

you're on a roll. that's funny. i wasn't being funny, bob. $2400. remember when he promised by the i know. end of his first term, i'll cut the deficit in half. we've had four budgets. four, trillion dollar deficits. a debt crisis is coming. we can't keep spending money we don't have. leaders run to problems to fix problems. president obama has not even put a credible plan on the table in any of his four years to deal with this debt crisis. i passed two things to tackle this. mitt romney has put ideas on the table. we have to tackle this before it tackles us. we asked the president's budget office, can we see the plan, and the press secretary gave us a copy of the speech. and we asked the congressional buthsd office, tell us what president obama's plan is to prevent a debt crisis. they said it's a speech. we can't estimate speeches. that's what we get in this administration. speeches, but we're not getting leadership. mitt romney is uniquely qualified to fix these problems.

lifetime of experience, proven track record of bipartisanship. what do we have from the president? he broke his big promise to bring people together to solve the country's biggest problem. i would tell him we don't have to settle for this, we can do better thank this. >> i hope i'll get equal time. >> you will get just a few minutes here, a few seconds really. >> the two budgets that congress has introduced, has eviscerated all the things that the middle class cares about. you will knock 19 million people off medicare. it will kick 200,000 children off early education and eliminate the tax credit people have to be able to send their children to college. it cuts education by $450 billion. it does virtually nothing except >> let's talk about medicare and to increase the tax cuts for the very wealthy. entitlements. both medicare and social we've had enough of this. security are going broke and taking a larger share of the the idea that he's so concerned budget in the process. will benefits for americans under these programs have to about the deficit, i pointed

change for the programs to survive, mr. ryan? out, he voted to put two wars on the credit card. >> absolutely. medicare and social security are going bankrupt. >> we will have closing these are indisputable facts. statements. when i look at these programs, >> just a second. >> not raising taxes cutting we've all had tragedies in our lives. i think about what they've done -- is not cutting taxes. for my own family. my mom and i had my grandmother this is not -- >> let me calm down things here move in with us facing alzheimer's. just for a minute, and i want to talk to you very briefly before medicare was there for her. we go to closing statements about your own personal character. just like it's there for my mom right now who is a for the record senior. if you were elected what could after my dad died, my mom and i got social security and paid for college benefits. you both give to this country as helped her go back to college in a man, as a human being, that no her 50s. one else could? where she started a small >> honesty. no one else could. business because of the education that she got. there are plenty of fine people that could lead this country. what you need are people who she paid all of her taxes on the when they say they are going to promise that these programs would be there for her. do something is they go do it. we will honor these promises. you see, if you reform these programs for my generation, when people see solutions, they people 54 and below, you can offer a solution. guarantee they don't change for we're not getting that. people in or near retirement, which is what mitt romney and i proposing. look what obama care does. look, we can grow this economy it takes $716 billion from faster. that's what our five-point plan

medicare to spend on obama care. is all about. our plan is getting people out of poverty to the middle class. that means going with pro growth policies that we know get people even their own chief of medicare back to work. putting ideas on the table. backs this up. working with democrats. he says, you can't spend the same dollar twice. you can't claim this money goes to medicare and obama care. then they put this obama care board in charge of cutting that actually works sometimes. medicare each year that will >> vice president, could we get to that issue, what you would bring as a man, human being? i will keep you to about 15 lead to denied care for current seconds. >> he gets 40, i get 15? >> he didn't have 40. >> that's okay. seniors. this board, it's 15 people, the president is supposed to appoint >> my record stands for itself. them next year and not one of them has to have medical training. social security, if we don't i never say anything i don't shore up social security, when we run out of the ious, when the program goes bankrupt, a 25% mean. across the board benefit cut everybody knows whatever i say i do and my whole life has been kicks in on seniors in the middle of their retirement. devoted to leveling the playing field for middle-class people, we're going to stop that from giving them an even break. happening. treating main street and wall they haven't put a credible solution on the table. he'll tell you about vouchers street the same, both with the and say all these things to scare people. same responsibility. look at my record, all about the middle class. they are the people that grow this country. here's what we're saying. give younger people, when they become medicare eligible, we think you grow this country guaranteed coverage options that from the middle out, not from you can't be denied, including the top down. traditional medicare. so, what do you think? [ engine revs ]

choose your plan and then i'll take it. medicare subsidizes your premiums. not as much for the wealthy [ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. people. more coverage for the middle now during chevy truck month, income people. and total out of pocket coverage get 0% apr financing for 60 months for the poor and sick. or trade up to get the 2012 choice and competition. we would rather have 50 million chevy silverado all-star edition future seniors determine how their medicare is delivered to with a total value of $8,000. them, instead of 15 bureaucrats hurry in before they're all gone! deciding what, when, if and where they get it. >> i heard that death panel argument from sarah palin. it seems every vice presidential debate i hear this stuff about panels. let's talk about medicare. what we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to medicare. we cut the cost of medicare. we stopped overpaying insurance companies. when doctors and hospitals. the ama supported what we did. aarp endorsed what we did. and it extends the life of medicare to 2024. they want to wipe this all out. it also gave more benefits. any senior out there, ask yourself, do you have more benefits today? everyone in the nicu, you do. if you're near the doughnut all the nurses wanted to watch him

when he was there 118 days. hole, you have $600 more to help your prescription drug cost. you get wellness visits without co-pays. they wiped this out and medicare becomes insolvent in 2016. everything that you thought was important to you changes number one. in light of having a child that needs you every moment. number two, guaranteed benefit. it's a voucher. when they first proposed -- when the congressman had his first voucher program, the cbo said it would cost $6400 a year, martha, more for every senior 55 and below when they got there. i wouldn't trade him for the world. he knew that. yet he got all the guys in who matters most to you says the most about you. congress to vote for it. governor romney, knowing that, massmutual is owned by our policyholders said i would sign it were i there. who do you believe? so they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, the ama, me, a guy who has fought his whole life for this our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help. or somebody who put in motion a plan that knowingly cuts -- added $6,400 a year more to the cost of medicare. now they've got a new plan. trust me, it's not going to cost

you any more. folks, follow your instincts on this one. and with regard to social security, we will not -- we will not privatize it. if we had listened to romney, governor romney and the congressman during the bush years, imagine where all those seniors would be now if their money had been in the market. their ideas are old and bad and they eliminate the guarantee of medicare. >> here's the problem. they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, turning medicare into a piggy bank for obama care. their own actuary from the administration came to congress and said 1 out of 6 hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business as a result of this. 7.4 million seniors are projected to lose the coverage they have, that's the $3,200 benefit cut. >> that doesn't happen. >> these are from your own actuaries. >> more people signed up for medicare advantage after the change. nobody is -- >> mr. vice president, i know -- mr. vice president i know you're

under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but people >> now to closing statements. thank you, gentlemen. and the coin toss has vice would be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other. >> don't take all the four president biden starting. minutes again. >> let me say at the outset, >> we're saying don't change benefits for people 55 and thank you, martha, for doing above. this and centre college. they already organize their retirement around -- >> let me ask you this, what is the fact is, we're in a your specific plan for seniors who really can't afford to make situation where we inherited a up the difference in the value of what you call a premium god awful circumstance. support plan and others call a people are in real trouble. voucher? >> 100% coverage. we acted to move to relieve people who need the most help that's what we're saying. we're saying -- now. and in the process, in case you >> how do you make that up? >> taking down subsidies for haven't noticed, we have strong disagreements. wealthy people. you probably detected my frustration with their attitude look, this is a plan -- about the american people. by that way, that $6,400 number was misleading. my friends that 30% of the it's totally inaccurate now. this is a bipartisan plan. american people are takers. i put it together with a prominent democratic senator in -- >> there's not one democrat who romney points out 47% of the endorses it. >> our partner is a democrat from oregon. people won't take >> and he says he no longer supports it. >> we put it together with the responsibility. talk about my mother and father, talking about the places i grew former clinton --

up in, neighbors in claymont and >> who disavows it. francis. he's talking about people who built this country. all they are looking for is an >> this idea came from the even shot. clinton commission to save whenever you give them a shot. medicare, chaired by senator they've done it. they've done it. whenever you level the playing john bro. here's the point, martha. if we don't fix this problem field, they've been able to soon, then current seniors get cut. here's the problem. move. they want a little bit of peace 10,000 people are retiring every of mind. day in america today and they will for 20 years. that's not a political thing, the president and i won't rest that's a math thing. until the playing field is >> if we just -- if they just leveled. they, in fact, have a clear shot allow medicare to bargain for the cost of drugs like medicaid and peace of mind. until they can turn to their kid and say with a degree of confidence, honey, it's can, that would save $156 billion right off the bat. going to be okay. >> and it would deny seniors it's going to be okay. that's what this is all about. choices. >> congressman ryan. >> seniors are not denied. >> i want to thank you as well, martha, danville, kentucky, and >> absolutely. centre college. i want to thank you, joe. >> they are not denied. look, folks, all you seniors out it's been an honor to engage in there, have you been denied this critical debate. choices? have you lost medicare advantage? >> vice president biden, if it we face a big choice. could help solve the problem, what kind of country are we why not slowly raise the going to be? what kind of country will we medicare eligibility age by two give our kids? president obama had his chance, years? made his choices.

as congressman ryan suggests? his economic agenda, more >> look, i was there when we did spending, more borrowing, higher that with social security in 1983. i was one of eight people sitting in a room that included taxes, a government takeover of tip o'neill negotiating with health care, it's not working. president reagan. we all got together and it's failed to create the jobs we need. 23 million americans are everybody said, as long as struggling for work today. everybody is in the deal, everybody is in the deal, and 15% of americans in poverty. everybody is making some sacrifice, we can find a way. this is not what a real recovery looks like. we made the system solvent to 2033. you deserve better. mitt romney and i want to earn we will not, though, be part of your support. any voucher plan eliminating -- we're offering real reforms for the voucher says, mom, when real recovery for every american. you're 65, go out there, shop for the best insurance you can get. you're out of medicare, you can mitt romney is experienced, his buy back in with this voucher, ideas, his solutions, he's uniquely qualified to get this which will not keep pace with job done. at a time when we have a jobs health care costs. because if it did keep pace, crisis in america, wouldn't it there would be no savings. be nice have a job creator in that's why they go the voucher. the white house? we will be no part of a voucher the choice is clear. program or the privatization of a stagnant economy that promotes social security. more government dependency or a >> a voucher is you go to your mailbox, get a check and buy dynamic growing economy that something. nobody is proposing that. promotes opportunity and jobs.

barack obama four years ago mitt romney and i will not duck the tough issues and we will not running for president, said, if blame others for the next four you don't have any fresh ideas, years. we will take responsibility, and use stale tactics to scare we will not try to replace our voters. if you don't have a good record founding principles. to run on, paint your opponent as someone to run from. we will reapply our founding >> you were one of the few to principles. the choice is clear and the choice rests with you, and we stand with president bush when he was seeking to partially ask you for your vote. thank you. >> and thank you both again. privatize social security. >> for younger people. thank you very much. this concludes the vice what we said then and i've presidential debate. please tune in next tuesday for always agreed, let younger the second presidential debate americans have a voluntary choice of making their money at hofstra university in new york. i'm rtha raddatz of abc news. work faster for them within the i do hope all of you go to the social security system. that's not what mitt romney is proposing. we're saying no changes for polls. have a good evening. a new-roof discount? anybody 55 and over. and then the kinds of changes we're talking about for younger people like myself is don't [ thudding ] increase the benefits for people oh, boy. yep. and it's an agent's job to help people find new ways to save. -- wealthy people as fast as everybody else. there's some cool stuff up here. slowly raise the retirement age over time. there sure is. [ man ] look what i found. it wouldn't get to 70 until the it's a fiddler on the roof. ♪ [ up-tempo country ] year 2103. >> quickly, mr. vice president. what are the chances?

>> quickly, the bottom line is [ announcer ] we are insurance. that all the studies show if we ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ went with social security proposals made by mitt romney, if you're in your 40s now, you'll pay $2,600 a year -- you there's the sign to the bullpen. here he comes. get $2,600 a year less in social you wouldn't want your doctor doing your job, security. if you're in your 20s, you get $4,700 a year less. the pitch! whoa! the idea of changing and change so why are you doing his? only your doctor can determine if your persistent heartburn being in this case to cut the benefits for people without is actually something more serious taking other action you could do like acid reflux disease. to make it work is absolutely the wrong way. over time, stomach acid can damage the lining of your esophagus. look, these guys haven't been for many, prescription nexium not only provides big on medicare from the beginning. 24-hour heartburn relief, but can also help heal acid-related erosions in their party's not been big on the lining of your esophagus. talk to your doctor about the risk for osteoporosis-related medicare from the beginning. and they've always been about social security, as little as you can do. look, folks, use your common bone fractures and low magnesium levels sense. who do you trust on this? with long-term use of nexium. possible side effects include a man who introduced a bill that headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. would raise it $6,400 a year, let your doctor do his job. knowing it and passing it and and you do yours. ask if nexium is right for you. romney saying you sign it or me if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. and the president? >> that was completely misleading. >> those are the facts. >> this is what politicians do when they don't have a record to

run on. try to scare people from voting for you. if you don't get ahead of this problem, it's going to -- >> medicare beneficiaries -- >> we're going to move on. i have a simple question -- >> medicare and social security did so much for my own family. we're not going to jeopardize the program. but we have to save it. >> you are jeopardizing the program. you're changing the program from a guaranteed benefit to a premium support -- whatever you call it. the bottom line is people are going to have to pay more money out of their pocket and the families i know, they don't have the money to pay more. >> that's why we're saying more for higher income people and less for low income people. >> gentlemen, i would like to move on to a simple question and something tells me i won't get a simple answer. >> i gave you a simple answer. he's raising the cost of medicare. how can something get bigger.. and smaller? there's more of it.. and less of it?

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on to taxes. if your ticket is elected, who will pay more and who will pay less in taxes, vice president? >> the mide class will pay less and people making a million dollars will pay slightly more. let me give you one concrete example. the continuation of the bush tax cuts, we're arguing the tax cuts for the wealthy should be allowed to expire. of the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, 800 million -- billion dollars of that goes to people making a minimum of a million dollars. we see no justification in these economic times for those and they're patriotic americans, they're not asking for this

continued tax cut. they're not suggestg it, but my friends are insisting on it. 120,000 families, by continuing that tax cut, will get an additional $500 billion in tax relief in the next ten years. and their income is an average of $8 million. we want to extend permanently the middle class tax cut permanently, from the bush middle class tax cut. these guys won't allow us to. su know what they're saying? we say let's have a vote on the middle class tax cut and have a vote on the upper tax cut. let's vote on it. they're saying no. they're holding hostage the middle class tax cut to the super wealthy. on top of that, they've got another tax cut coming that's $5 trillion that all of the studies point out will give another $250 million -- yeah, $250,000 a year to those 120,000 families, and raise taxes for people who are middle income with a child by $2,000 a year.

this is unconscionable. there is no need for this. the middle class got knocked on their heels. the great recession crushed them. thy need some help now. the last people who need help are 120,000 families for under -- another $500 billion tax cut over the next ten years. >> congressman? >> our entire premise of these tax reform plans is to grow the economy and create jobs. it's estimated to create 7 million jobs. we think that government taking 28% of a family and business's income is enough. president obama thinks that the government ought to be able to take as much as 44.8% of a small business's income. look, if you taxed every person in a successful small business making over $250,000 at 100%, it would only run the government for 98 days. if everybody who paid taxes last

year, including successful small businesses, doubled their income taxes this year, we would still have a $300 billion deficit. you see, there aren't enough rich people and small businesses to tax to pay for all their spending. and so the next time you hear them say, don't worry about it, we'll get a few wealthy people to pay their fair share, watch out, middle class, the tax bill is coming to you. that's why we're saying we need fundamental tax reform. let's look at it this way. 8 out of 10 businesses, they file their taxes as individuals, not corporations. where i come from overseas, which is lake superior, the canadians, they drop their tax rates to 15%. the average tax rate on businesses in the industrialized world is 25% and the president wants the effective top tax rate on successful small businesses to go above 40%. 2/3 of our jobs come from small businesses. this one tax would actually tax about 53% of small business income.

it's expected to cost us 710,000 jobs. and it doesn't even pay for 10% of the proposed deficit spending increases. we're saying close loopholes lower tax rates across the bo d board, close loopholes primely to the hire income people. we have three bottom lines. don't raise the deficit. don't raise taxes on the middle class. and don't lower the share of income born by the high income earners. he'll keep saying this $5 trillion plan. it's been discredited by six other studies and their own deputy campaign manager acknowledged it wasn't correct. >> let's talk about this 20%. you have refused to offer specifics on how you pay for that 20% across the board tax cut. do you actually have the specifics or are you still working on it and that's why you won't tell voters? >> different than this administration, we want to have big bipartisan agreements. see, i understand -- >> do you have the specifics, do you have the -- >> that would be the first in a republican congress.

>> look at what ronald reagan and tip o'neill did. they worked together to broaden the base and lower tax rates. and they worked together to fix that. what we're saying is, here's our framework, lower taxerates about 20%. we forego about 1.1 trillion in loopholes and deductions. whoa we're saying is deny those loopholes and deductions to higher income taxpayers to more of their income is taxed. so we can lower tax rates across the board. here's why i'm saying this. >> i hope i'm going to get time to respond to this one. >> you'll get time. >> we want to work with congress on how to achieve this. >> no specifics? >> lower tax rates 20%. start with the wealthy. work with congress to do it. >> you guarantee this math will add up? >> six studies have guaranteed. six study have verified this

math adds up. >> let me have a chance to translate. i was there when ronald reagan gave specifics on what he would cut. number two, 97% of small businesses in america make less than $250,000. let me tell you who some of the small businesses are. hedge funds that make 6, 800 million dollars a year. governor romney, about ten days ago, was asked, governor, you pay 14% on $20 million. someone making $50,000 paid more than that. do you think that's fair? >> he said, oh, yes, that's fair. that's fair. you think these guys are going to go out there and cut those loopholes? the biggest loophole is the carried interest and capital gains loophole. they exempt that.

the reason why the aei study, the tax policy center study, the reason they all say taxes are going up on the middle class, the only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes is cut the mortgage deduction for middle class people. cut the health care people for middle class people. take away their ability to get a tax break to send their kids to college. that's why they arrive -- >> is he wrong about that? >> he is wrong about that. >> how's that? >> you can cut tax rates by 20% and preserve -- >> not mathematically possible. >> it is mathematically possible. it's been done before. >> it's never been done before. >> it's been done a couple of times. >> now you're jack kennedy. this is amazing. >> republicans and democrats have worked together on this. i understand you guys aren't used to doing bipartisan deals. >> we told you what we're going to do.

this is what we said what we're going to cut. >> that's how you get things done, you work with congress. let me say it this way. >> republican congress working bipartisanly. 7% rating. come on. >> mitt romney was governor of massachusetts where 87% of the ladies and gentlemen slators he served with were democrats. he didn't demonize them dema gog them. he met with them every week, he reached across the aisle, didn't compromise principles, found common ground and balanced the budget. [ all speak at once ] >> why is he even contesting massachusetts? >> what would you suggest beyond raising taxes on the wealthy that would substantially reduce -- >> just let taxes expire like they're supposed to on those millionaires. we can't afford $800 billion going to people making a minimum of a million dollars. they do not need it, martha. those 120,000 families make $8

million a year. middle-class people need the help. why does my friend cut out the tuition tax credit for them? >> can you declare anything off limits? >> yeah, we're saying close loopholes on high interest deductions. for higher income people. >> can you guarantee that no one making less than $100,000 will have a mortgage deduction impacted? >> this taxes a million small businesses. he keeps trying to make you think it's a movie star, hedge fund guy -- >> 97% of the small businesses make less than $250,000 a year, would not be affected -- >> this taxes a million people, a million small businesses. >> does it tax everyone in% of america? >> a million small businesses who are the greatest job creators. >> and you're going to increase the defense budget? >> we're not going to cut the defense budget. >> $2 billion -- >> that's not going to happen.

>> so no massive defense increase? >> you want to get into defense now? >> yes, i do. because that's another math question. how do you do that? >> so, they proposed a $478 billion cut to defense to begin with. now we have another $500 billion cut to defense that's lurking on the horizon. they insisted upon that cut being involved in the debt negotiations. so now we have -- >> let's put the automatic defense cuts aside. no one wants that. but i want to know how you do the math and have this increase in defense. >> you don't cut defense by a trillion. that's what we're talking about. >> what national security issue is justify an increase? >> we'll cut 80,000 soldiers, 20,000 marines, 120 cargo planes, we'll put the joint -- >> drawing down. and one more and one more. >> if these cuts go through, the navy will be the smallest it has

been since before world war i. this invites weakness. do we believe in strength? you bet we do. you don't impose these devastating cuts on our military. we're saying, don't cut the military by a trillion dollars. don't cut it by a trillion dollars. >> quickly, vice president biden. >> we don't want to use the word sequester, automatic cut. that was part of a debt deal they asked for. let me tell you what my friend said at a press conference. announcing his support of the deal. he said we've been looking for this moment for a long time. >> can i tell you what that meant? we have been looking for bipartisanship for a long time. >> bipartisanship is what he voted for the automatic cuts in defense if they didn't act. and beyond that, they asked for another -- look, the military says we need a smaller, leaner army. we need more special forces. we don't need more tanks. what we need is more -- >> some of the military. >> not some of the military, that was the decision of the

joint chiefs of staff. recommended to us and agreed to by the president. they made the recommendation first.